Party leaders speak of surveillance fallout and possibilities of collaboration after elections, at ERT debate
The theme of "State, institutions, transparency" during the live debate broadcast on ERT included the issue of phone surveillance. The issue broke with revelations in August 2022 that the government of Prime Minister Kyriakos Mitsotakis had tapped the phone of PASOK-KINAL leader Nikos Androulakis, followed by more. The furore led to the resignation of the National Intelligence Service (EYP) chief and his government liaison (the premier's nephew), investigations, and the PM's apology.
Asked by journalists whether he had had any thoughts of resigning, the New Democracy leader responded that he did not, "but courageously assumed my responsibility and two specific commitments": to have the issue examined and to amend legislative missteps. His government reintroduced the mandatory sign-off of two, instead of one, judge on a planned surveillance and included the Parliament speaker also "to avoid a repeat of a surveillance that I had from the very start said must not take place." He added, "I would like to believe that EYP may be able to consistently provide each prime minister with the information he needs."
The explanations for tapping the head of the Greek Armed Forces, a political leader, and an active minister "were not adequate," the PM said, adding that "Mr. Androulakis does not comprise any kind of danger for the security of Greece, and should not be under surveillance." The New Democracy leader said that the case created "a shadow over our government, I have no doubt about it, and it should not have occurred."
He also cited The Economist as saying that "democracy in Greece has improved despite the wiretapping scandal - even in the case of Mykonos we proved we will not tolerate pockets of illegality," referring to the rampant violation of building codes on the popular island.
"Well, if the prime minister is asked and he replies, 'The explanations I gave were not adequate,' let him give us some today," SYRIZA-Progressive Alliance leader Alexis Tsipras said, questioning how he could "collaborate with Androulakis tomorrow if he is truly an 'agent' and 'a national threat'." In terms of forming a coalition government in the upcoming elections on May 21, the main opposition leader said he has called on all progressive parties to join his, as there is a future based on a program that will increase wages, reduce prices, and manage debts. "I see there are approaches, but we shall see them better after elections, I think," he noted.
Tsipras said it was natural that all parties are antagonistic ahead of elections, even those that tend to approach each other in policy programs, but he was listening carefully to both Koutsoubas (KKE) and Androulakis (PASOK-KINAL).
The wiretapping issue "has haunted the domestic political system, Greece has come under the cross-hairs for issues related to institutions, violations of human rights and of the division of powers," PASOK-KINAL's Androulakis said. "I trust Greek justice, but not its political system," he added.
Androulakis expressed disbelief that there would be "such a dark state with so many involved, and the crisis of trust is also related to the behavior of other parties." He said that "respect and justice mean that we politicians should show that there is a separation of powers." He cited the report of the European Parliament's PEGA (Committee of Inquiry to investigate the use of Pegasus and equivalent surveillance spyware) for saying that the rule of law was violated in Greece, and he criticized the government again for trying to shield the PM's nephew from parliamentary procedures.
Asked what could be done for a more independent judicial branch, PASOK-KINAL leader said, "We need modernisation and great institutional changes for a new European reality. We have not become Hungary, Mr. Mitsotakis, but we are on the path to becoming one."
On the question of why KKE declines Tsipras' invitation to join a coalition government, KKE party leader Koutsoubas explained, "We never said that Mr. Tsipras and Mr. Mitsotakis were the same, or Syriza and ND, and all the rest of the parties. What we are saying is that they have common programs, the same goals, and these relate to the Recovery Fund and its requirements, the country's energy policy and the so-called green transition, the choices of international allies, of NATO and the EU, who in our opinion obstruct Greece's development and the Greek people's interests. In this direction and on that basis of these programs, we have said that we will not tolerate or support such a government."
Koutsoubas said the people should be warned not to believe campaign pronouncements, while he rejected as baseless questions about KKE funding. "The party is subject to constant audits from the tax services, the Parliament committee, and certified accountants," he asserted.
Asked if he expected far-right voters to cast their ballot for his party, after the blocking of a neo-Nazi party by the Supreme Court, Greek Solution leader Kyriakos Velopoulos said that according to the Constitution, that party leader (jailed former MP Ilias Kasidiaris) has a right to vote. "Political leaders cannot block the path for anyone who wants to go to elections and then allow him, while governing, to make statements from within jail. Only the Greek people can decide who will be elected."
Velopoulos also said it was unlikely he would join ND in a coalition government, if the election results were such. "Collaboration with a party that directly hands out contracts, one which betrayed Macedonia, discussed maritime zones - I will never do that. Our difference with Türkiye is a single one, we don't unfold several others," he insisted.
MeRA25 leader Yanis Varoufakis described Greece following the loan memoranda as "Swiss cheese": the state does not check the tax service, while the digital minister does not even have access to the software of the tax service. "Do you know any other country in which a Superfund is controlled by foreign lenders?," he said, referring to Greece's national investment fund. He proposed instead consultation councils, which would include citizens chosen both by vote and by lottery, to serve as supervisors of civil services.
He proposed that an FBI-like agency be set up to pursue large business and political crime, and asked the prime minister why he did not draw up an investigative committee on the 2015 negotiations in the EU that he conducted. "Why did you balk [at doing that], Mr. Mitsotakis?"